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Thread: "Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

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  1. #14173
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnHandCock  [View Original Post]
    Some guys have problems and this is their remedy. I have never bought the relationship, commitment, pay to leave answers as most of these guys love to get involved in a escorts life and probably have posted at one time about being rushed or not getting the full time paid for. Just my opinion.
    Does it indicate anything to you that your cynicism is in the minority here? Particularly given the number of credible posters that have described experiences in sugar dating in this thread that contradict your doubts. A lot of people have pointed this out to you. I have noticed many regular posters complaining about the negative vibe you strive so hard to bring to the thread.

    It takes pretty much a dedicated effort toward intentional denial to not understand that hot women are attracted to successful men, period. Almost all of them want to land one permanently, unless they are feeding a drug habit and then they may have other motives. Some of the women that sign up to be SBs are far from close to escort status, while some of them are outright escorts, and varying levels in between. Sugar dating has been taking place on civy dating sites long before dedicated SD sites came along, some girls are genuinely attracted to older men (particularly successful ones).

    Within the spectrum of girls you meet in the bowl, the money might be more or less important to them depending on how much they like you. To some, it's the only thing.

    But don't forget there is a spectrum of sugar daddies as well, and they judge us based on where we land on that spectrum. On one end of it you might have repulsive, depressed, old and overweight tightwads with no game that are trying to date too far out of their league, and at the opposite end of the other spectrum you have billionaires that look like Brad Pitt that can get pretty much whoever they want. The kind of results an SD has will depend on where he falls on the spectrum, and to some extent he can change where he falls on the spectrum by making it his goal to do so.

    For guys at one end of the spectrum to doubt what might go on farther up the spectrum doesn't seem to make much sense, they are talking about something they have no first hand knowledge of. The same level of negative thinking that leads the guys at the low-end to believe they know better is probably exactly the same characteristic that's repelling women and forcing them to pay too much for it. How many women like a cynical, opinionated, negative man? Those types have created a catch-22 situation for themselves. Sucks to be them.

    Bottom line is, if anyone is paying too much for pussy and want to fix the problem here are your options:

    1. Improve yourself -- your looks, your game, your level of confidence, your attitude on life, elevating female interest in you or elevating the qualify of girls interested in you.

    2. Lower your standards. If girls are just taking your money without indicating they want to stay the night or weekend with you, you could be trying to play too far out of your league, so if you're the type that prefers compromise over effort to improve yourself, this could be your answer.

    3. Continue to piss and moan, pontificating about what others might be experiencing, even though you don't really know, and continue paying too much for pussy.

    That's pretty much what it comes down to. To doubt that anyone is having more fun than ourselves is kind of shallow and lame, you have to admit.

  2. #14172
    Quote Originally Posted by PghGuy2005  [View Original Post]
    Swers. What does it mean? Or was that a typo.

    Could it be that it is simpler (no complications of relationship, commitment etc) to buy pussy? Since no babe ever gave me the time of day and have always had to payI have no way of comparing the two scenarios.
    Some guys have problems and this is their remedy. I have never bought the relationship, commitment, pay to leave answers as most of these guys love to get involved in a escorts life and probably have posted at one time about being rushed or not getting the full time paid for. Just my opinion.

  3. #14171

    Swers

    Pretty sure he meant swers as in. Short for street walkers. It's a common abbreviation.

    Quote Originally Posted by PghGuy2005  [View Original Post]
    Swers. What does it mean? Or was that a typo.

    Could it be that it is simpler (no complications of relationship, commitment etc) to buy pussy? Since no babe ever gave me the time of day and have always had to payI have no way of comparing the two scenarios.
    .

  4. #14170

    Swers?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnHandCock  [View Original Post]
    ...Most here do which is one of the reasons SA is being over run with swers, CL, BP and escort girls....
    Swers. What does it mean? Or was that a typo.

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnHandCock  [View Original Post]
    ...why most guys are buying pussy instead of picking a girl up civy style. If you have that personality, good sense of humor and in shape that you mentioned its really easy to pick up girls. Just an old mans option, everyone has one.
    Could it be that it is simpler (no complications of relationship, commitment etc) to buy pussy? Since no babe ever gave me the time of day and have always had to payI have no way of comparing the two scenarios.

  5. #14169
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnHandCock  [View Original Post]
    You asked a question pro or not and I gave an option. My theory on the game part is pretty simple also. Anyone with game can pick up pussy pretty easy without having to pay for it. There again opinion. I don't consider anyone in the sex industry a SB so we're never going to agree.
    Not all professional dancers are professional sex providers, if that's what you mean. If you read the strip club boards in various cities, you will find some clubs where nobody gets takeout or even back room extras, ever -- that is more a factor of the club itself, management, work shift policies etc. At the same time there are some clubs in some cities that are practically brothels. In a "typical club", a surprising number of strippers are lesbian, or bi preferring females, and that is probably the single biggest limiting factor I've found in hooking up with them.

    If a stripper meets a customer she's interested in fucking right away, should she leave behind earnings of at least a couple of hundred bucks (possibly a lot more) after she's already paid management her fee for the right to work the club that night? It's not realistic (or polite, even) to talk to her with the attitude of "let's fuck, I don't care that it will probably cost you at least three hundred bucks if you leave with me"). Covering her income loss is the fair thing to do, and I would say that does not make her a pro sex worker. If she's giving blow jobs or fucking in the VIP room then yes she is, but not in a paid takeout situation unless she is really having a slow night and that's her only motive (I'd say that's rare, most strippers aren't that desperate). That's not to say she is not ALSO a sex worker by my own definition, but takeout in and of itself does not make her one. That's my opinion of course, and I'm not trying to convince you to agree with me. I'm interested in how others think but not prone to keep my thoughts to myself.

  6. #14168
    Quote Originally Posted by JZLizard  [View Original Post]
    I didn't say it doesn't happen often, I just said it doesn't happen as often as it should.

    The likelihood of an SB, or stripper wanting to fuck a customer simply because she's attracted to him, and wants to, is a factor of two things: how attracted she is to him physically, and how much game he has. Anyone thinks the odds are like lottery or a lightning strike should improve their game, because they are missing out on some good times. Comments that indicate frustration and the difficulty of getting laid without paying for it only come from those who need to develop their game and / or improve themselves physically. Game matters more than appearance, but they both matter.

    If I limited my statistics to only clubs with lax management or situations that allow the girl to leave easily, I would say that my efforts to obtain an offer for "break-even" takeout (I. E. I'm paying her no more than she would make it she stayed and worked her shift) are probably 6-7 out of 10 times. The actual statistics are lower, because some clubs make this tricky to navigate due to their management practice, they have the girl scared they will be fired if they don't finish their shift, or whatever, and unless you can get a couple of drinks down them they usually do care about losing their job. Shit happens. If I'm willing to just get her phone number and hook up with her later? Much greater odds. I'd say at almost any strip club, if they have enough dancers working, I could find at least one that will give me her number to hook up later (with no mention of money paid. Dancers usually already make decent money and don't need an SD unless the idea of it appeals to them sexually)..
    You asked a question pro or not and I gave an option. My theory on the game part is pretty simple also. Anyone with game can pick up pussy pretty easy without having to pay for it. There again opinion. I don't consider anyone in the sex industry a SB so we're never going to agree.

  7. #14167
    Quote Originally Posted by Madaboutmax  [View Original Post]
    I'm sorry your experience has been that bad. You seem very cynical.

    If you have game, are still in decent shape and have a good sense of humor, you can do much better than typical BP girls...for less.
    Not cynical, just been in the sb game since 2010 and have realistic views and experience. If you care to look at my earlier post I'm a big believer in personality getting you further than the being in shape. That comes in second place, first place is the being able to provide the needs or arrangements to the SB. Game follows personality or is same for me. If you have no personality you have no game. My response was to jeez lizard question about strippers. For me a stripper is a pro whether she throws you a free one or not. If your more than generous sooner or later someone will throw you a free one. Its just good business. I'm old so my views are probably radical to some. My definition of a SB I'm sure is different than most. Anyone working in the sex industry I don't consider a SB. Most here do which is one of the reasons SA is being over run with swers, CL, BP and escort girls. When the first message to a potential SB is how much today, how much for an hour, or the popular will you take it up the ass shows why most guys are buying pussy instead of picking a girl up civy style. If you have that personality, good sense of humor and in shape that you mentioned its really easy to pick up girls. Just an old mans option, everyone has one.

  8. #14166
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnHandCock  [View Original Post]
    Yeah that doesn't happen to often, about like hitting the lottery or being struck by lighting. They are pros, just because one gets lucky once doesn't change the fact you can find most on BP or the higher end girls at an agency or p411. Because they throw you a bone means you have probably been pretty generous and they are getting ready to put their hand back in your pocket. Your right on the account that very few people have the same definition of a sb.
    I didn't say it doesn't happen often, I just said it doesn't happen as often as it should.

    The likelihood of an SB, or stripper wanting to fuck a customer simply because she's attracted to him, and wants to, is a factor of two things: how attracted she is to him physically, and how much game he has. Anyone thinks the odds are like lottery or a lightning strike should improve their game, because they are missing out on some good times. Comments that indicate frustration and the difficulty of getting laid without paying for it only come from those who need to develop their game and / or improve themselves physically. Game matters more than appearance, but they both matter.

    If I limited my statistics to only clubs with lax management or situations that allow the girl to leave easily, I would say that my efforts to obtain an offer for "break-even" takeout (I. E. I'm paying her no more than she would make it she stayed and worked her shift) are probably 6-7 out of 10 times. The actual statistics are lower, because some clubs make this tricky to navigate due to their management practice, they have the girl scared they will be fired if they don't finish their shift, or whatever, and unless you can get a couple of drinks down them they usually do care about losing their job. Shit happens. If I'm willing to just get her phone number and hook up with her later? Much greater odds. I'd say at almost any strip club, if they have enough dancers working, I could find at least one that will give me her number to hook up later (with no mention of money paid. Dancers usually already make decent money and don't need an SD unless the idea of it appeals to them sexually). My point here is that success rate depends on the club you pick. There are clubs where I know before I walk in that I can get some. I actually prefer the more difficult clubs because I like a challenge, so my own statistics are lower than if I were just playing for high score, or if I put aside my SO to be a full-time strip club monger with the goal of getting laid everyday. A player can always lower his standards for girls too, if high score is what matters. I prefer not to do that, sometimes I walk into a club and don't even see anyone up to my standard. Its not uncommon for me to get an offer for some off the clock fun and never follow up on it.

    If that sounds out of reach or rare to you, I'd suggest reading some of the posts I've written in the past in this thread as exercises to improve your game, particularly the stripper-handling techniques if that's what appeals to you (require different handling than online SBs).

    Our natural propensity for tunnel vision tempts us to believe that if our luck is good or bad in a given situation, everyone else must be experiencing the same thing. That has never been true when it comes to varying degrees of skill with the opposite sex.

  9. #14165

    Cynical

    I'm sorry your experience has been that bad. You seem very cynical.

    If you have game, are still in decent shape and have a good sense of humor, you can do much better than typical BP girls...for less.

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnHandCock  [View Original Post]
    Yeah that doesn't happen to often, about like hitting the lottery or being struck by lighting. They are pros, just because one gets lucky once doesn't change the fact you can find most on BP or the higher end girls at an agency or p411. Because they throw you a bone means you have probably been pretty generous and they are getting ready to put their hand back in your pocket. Your right on the account that very few people have the same definition of a sb.

  10. #14164
    Quote Originally Posted by JZLizard  [View Original Post]
    For me, there is not a black & white definition of an SB versus UTR or escort, just a sliding scale which indicates whether how close they are to the civy relationship side of the scale versus the professional sex worker. The middle of that scale can get blurry at times, and the indicator needle doesn't always remain fixed on one part of the scale for any one given girl.

    The kind of sugar dating I do tends to be a little more on the civy side of the scale. No negotiating, no promises, and no guarantees of anything (what will take place sexually is unknown, as is the gift amount. Its all based on chemistry at the time).

    I look at it like this: If Neighbor-1 helps out Neighbor-2 by mowing his lawn every now and then while Neighbor-2 is out of town, and Neighbor-2 shows his appreciation to Neighbor-1 by inviting him over for filet mignon and top shelf liquor each time it happens, to what extent does that make Neighbor-1 a professional landscaper? Or Neighbor-2 a restaurant / bar operator? Even if Neighbor-2 gives Neighbor-1 a few 20 dollar bills instead, it does not make him a pro yard guy, even an under the radar one. Quid pro quo is a normal part of all human relationships, including civy dates, traditional marriages, etc.

    For me, the selectivity of the SB is one of many factors that accept where she falls on the sliding scale, but is only one consideration. Some escorts are selective too. Specific preferences for client age or race can be found everywhere on BP ads.

    Hunting for SBs at strip clubs is a little different in my mind because there is almost always negotiation that takes place. Striking up a deal for takeout with a professional dancer feels a bit more toward the pro side of the scale. But, what if the amount she needs is roughly equal to or less than she will probably make if she finishes her shift? And what if, on her next night off, she suggests taking you to some of her favorite nightspots in town, and bangs your balls loose later with no money exchanged (it doesn't happen as often as it should, but it happens). Is she still a pro or did the needle on the scale move?
    Yeah that doesn't happen to often, about like hitting the lottery or being struck by lighting. They are pros, just because one gets lucky once doesn't change the fact you can find most on BP or the higher end girls at an agency or p411. Because they throw you a bone means you have probably been pretty generous and they are getting ready to put their hand back in your pocket. Your right on the account that very few people have the same definition of a sb.

  11. #14163
    Quote Originally Posted by Madaboutmax  [View Original Post]
    For me, what makes an SB different than UTR's, escorts, street walkers, etc is choice. They can and do say no. LOL.
    For me, there is not a black & white definition of an SB versus UTR or escort, just a sliding scale which indicates whether how close they are to the civy relationship side of the scale versus the professional sex worker. The middle of that scale can get blurry at times, and the indicator needle doesn't always remain fixed on one part of the scale for any one given girl.

    The kind of sugar dating I do tends to be a little more on the civy side of the scale. No negotiating, no promises, and no guarantees of anything (what will take place sexually is unknown, as is the gift amount. Its all based on chemistry at the time).

    I look at it like this: If Neighbor-1 helps out Neighbor-2 by mowing his lawn every now and then while Neighbor-2 is out of town, and Neighbor-2 shows his appreciation to Neighbor-1 by inviting him over for filet mignon and top shelf liquor each time it happens, to what extent does that make Neighbor-1 a professional landscaper? Or Neighbor-2 a restaurant / bar operator? Even if Neighbor-2 gives Neighbor-1 a few 20 dollar bills instead, it does not make him a pro yard guy, even an under the radar one. Quid pro quo is a normal part of all human relationships, including civy dates, traditional marriages, etc.

    For me, the selectivity of the SB is one of many factors that accept where she falls on the sliding scale, but is only one consideration. Some escorts are selective too. Specific preferences for client age or race can be found everywhere on BP ads.

    Hunting for SBs at strip clubs is a little different in my mind because there is almost always negotiation that takes place. Striking up a deal for takeout with a professional dancer feels a bit more toward the pro side of the scale. But, what if the amount she needs is roughly equal to or less than she will probably make if she finishes her shift? And what if, on her next night off, she suggests taking you to some of her favorite nightspots in town, and bangs your balls loose later with no money exchanged (it doesn't happen as often as it should, but it happens). Is she still a pro or did the needle on the scale move?

  12. #14162
    Quote Originally Posted by Madaboutmax  [View Original Post]
    I know I'm a hypocrite, but I want my primary SB to be exclusive to me, but I still have side dishes. I understand my side dishes may have to see multiple daddy's because I don't provide for them like I do for my primary SB.
    Good theory but unless one is providing everything the girl needs most girls take your approach. Human nature takes over. If one provides x amount then a side sd or 2 brings in extra $$. If they don't deactivate profile they still looking plus you never know what civy guy is playing in your sandbox.

  13. #14161

    Primary vs Side SBs

    I know I'm a hypocrite, but I want my primary SB to be exclusive to me, but I still have side dishes. I understand my side dishes may have to see multiple daddy's because I don't provide for them like I do for my primary SB.

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnHandCock  [View Original Post]
    A true sb for me has only 1 daddy. She doesn't have a rotation and her profile is deactivated.

  14. #14160
    Quote Originally Posted by Madaboutmax  [View Original Post]
    For me, what makes an SB different than UTR's, escorts, street walkers, etc is choice. They can and do say no. LOL.
    A true sb for me has only 1 daddy. She doesn't have a rotation and her profile is deactivated.

  15. #14159

    Definition of an SB

    For me, what makes an SB different than UTR's, escorts, street walkers, etc is choice. They can and do say no. LOL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smokarz_XO  [View Original Post]
    Who the hell trade SBs? It takes a lot of hard work to find a good SB. And if an SB is willing to be traded, or want to be traded, then she's a UTR at best.

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